12/05/2001
IWDM Study Library 
Tom Pope Interview IWDM-On Ramadan and World Affairs

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Tom Pope:
... is the Tom Pope Show, PowerNomics Radio Network. The toll-free number is 1-800-58 ... uh-oh, I'm giving you the main number, 1-800-486-3427, 1-800-486-3427. We should be joined momentarily by our guest, Imam Warith Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society leader.
A bit about his background, he was born to the Honorable Elijah Poole and Clara Evans Muhammad on October 30th, 1933. After the passing of his father, the founder and builder of the Nation of Islam on February 25th, 1975, he has represented Muslims in America and Oxford England at the World Parliament of Religious Leaders for the Survival of the Earth and at the signing of the Williamsburg Charter along with former US Presidents in Williamsburg, Virginia. Serving on the advisory panel for religious freedom abroad formed by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, he helped to promote religious freedom in the US and abroad.
In the July 7th, 1999, issue of the Wall Street Journal, an article cited the growing number of Muslims in the Muslim American Society under his leadership. They're estimated to be at least 2.5 million people today. On February 5th, 1992, Imam Mohammed addressed officials, Muslims and military chaplains and had a tour of the Pentagon with Muhammad Ali.
There are a number of publications by Imam W. Deen Mohammed, such as Serving Our Children, Saving Ourselves; The Champion We Have in Common; The Dynamic African American Soul; Blessed Ramadan or the Fast of Ramadan; Plans for a Better Future: Peace, Inclusion and International Brotherhood; Mohammed Speaks; Prayer and Islam and Focus on Al-Islam and a number of other communications. H is heard on the broadcasts of Imam W. Deen Mohammed and speaks in over 100 cities and we'll be giving you information where you can call and get more information.
A couple of other points and then prayerfully, he will be on our live line at this moment. When you look back through his career, as I indicated on February 26, '75, he succeeded his father as a leader of the Nation of Islam, beginning his transformation to what is called Islam proper. He has toured through China with a group of American friends of China. Moving forward, here in Washington, 1992, February 6th, toured the Pentagon and addressed the Muslim chaplains and personnel and delivered the invocation on the floor of the US Senate, the first by any Muslim. In '93, he joined in the inaugural activities in Washington, DC of President Clinton and participated in the inaugural interfaith prayer breakfast.
All right, so we're waiting on him to join us. Today, we will be talking about Ramadan and we will also be talking about events in what is often called the Middle East and I know that there are many of his followers who are listening at this moment and so, until he joins us here, we will discuss Ramadan as it starts to come to a close, what it has meant to those of you over the years and this year in particular. 1-800-486-3427.
And the question that we always ask those when it deals with faith issues, "What do you believe and why do you believe it?". 1-800-846-3427, as we put the spotlight on Islam today and look at Ramadan. Is there any particular significance to this year and at what time this year, this month, will Ramadan be over and what happens at the conclusion. Myself speaking from a layperson standpoint, Ramadan in essence, is a time when those of the Islamic faith are one and those who are outside of the faith, many are asking what will happen when Ramadan is over and what impact will that have on world politics at this moment given what is happening and the part of the world called the Middle East.
Okay. All right. I'm told that he will be coming to the phone in about 10 seconds here, folks. So, we will then of course, during the course of this hour, also take your calls about Ramadan in terms of its significance to you as well. And when we do that, the number for you to call is 1-800-486-3427.
Having said that, our guest is on the line, Imam Warith Deen Mohammed. This is Tom Pope. First of all, let me say As-Salaamu Alaykum.
IWDM:
Wa Alaikum As-salaam.
Tom Pope:
And how are you today, sir?
IWDM:
Thank G-d I'm doing well.
Tom Pope:
All right. Well, we glad that you have joined us today and in our listening audience, we have folks of all faiths who are listening and today we want to put the accent on Ramadan and one of the questions that we ask, whenever we deal with issues of faith, we always ask our guests, what do they believe and why do they believe it? And so, we've done your credits, your history, your background and the show are rolling and so let's start right there, Imam W. Deen Mohammed. What do you believe and why do you believe it, sir?
IWDM:
We believe our beliefs are very close to the beliefs of Christians and Jews who are called in our Holy Book, People of the Book, which means people who follow scripture, revealed scripture from G-d and we believe in G-d who created everything and we also believe in angels, that G-d has angels working in the creation with man and we believe in revelation that G-d reveals to man and man is G-d's Prophets and Messengers and we believe that those messages from G-d through these Prophets and messengers, books, sacred books they're direct communication from G-d to mankind.
And so, we believe in the books of G-d, the revelations that exist in the form of books and we believe in the judgment that man is going be judged one day, the final judgment. We believe that we're always being judged all the time, but there's coming a final judgment and G-d is going to bring the new creation about and those who have earned salvation, they will have the new creation without sickness and death and problems that we have in this life.
We also believe in the law of G-d that punishes and rewards and it's called Qadar. It's a law that punishes and rewards, therefore so when we do good, we get more in return while good deeds than we get for bad deeds, that we are punished only in measure of the bad deeds, but we're rewarded and many times over more than the measure for our good deeds. These are our beliefs. These beliefs are very similar to the beliefs of Jews and Christians, especially the Christians.
Tom Pope:
All right. Now, this being in the midst of Ramadan, for those who are listening, who may not be of the Islamic faith, and I'm asking you some basic questions and then we'll get into some specifics. What is Ramadan and how is it observed around the world?
IWDM:
Yes, our Holy Book says Ramadan is the month in which they defend the Koran and that means the Qur'an was revealed in the month of Ramadan to Muhammad the Prophet 14 centuries ago, prayer and peace be upon him. It is a month of fast, so G-d says fast in that month. It is the month of fast. The month is the lunar month. The days are calculated by the moon and once the new moon appears and is visible, we fast, we begin the fast and we conclude the fast when the new month comes, appears for the next month. The days are about 30 days. The fast days are about 30 days, sometimes 29. It varies a little bit, but only about one day. The lunar month is about 28 days, but usually the fast month is about 29 days or 30 days. I don't think the lunar month is the exactly 28 days, but we say 28 days.
Yes, yes, and so the month is a month of fasting from the dawn, from the time we see the night darkness separated from the dawn and it makes a straight line on the horizon. I've seen this. It's a parallel line, perfectly level with black beneath and white showing above it, so the pinnacle and it is mentioned as the white thread of light of dawn and when you can distinguish it and see it separated from the night, the black thread of light, you can see them both distinctly, the white thread of dawn and the black thread of night. They then begin their fasting and we fast and we don't take the food, liquid, nothing into the mouth. We wash our mouth of course, but don't swallow anything. We use tooth paste and everything, you can do it, but just don't swallow anything.
And we also fast from engaging in discussion that can lead to an argument, so say that someone annoys you within conversation, this is what is in our Holy Book, tell them I'm fasting. So, it's not just a fasting from physical things or from material intake, it's also fast thing to project yourself in the best form, in the most peaceful and they most handsome form for G-d.
Tom Pope:
Is this a good or bad time to do a talk show? I had to ask that.
IWDM:
For me, it's not because during the month of Ramadan, we're supposed to do all good and help all good causes.
Tom Pope:
Now, so in the evening, people gather together after they break their fast each day and share a meal either with family, friends or loved ones, and what happens at the end of Ramadan when it is over? Approximately, when will it be over this year, around the middle of December?
IWDM:
Yes. After the Ramadan is over, there comes a celebration. It's called Eid or the holiday and what we do on that day is dress up in our finest, our beautiful apparel, take showers, a bath and put on nice smell scents and dress in our most beautiful garments and we go and we have early in the morning, we have what we call the Eid, the celebration, the Eid the prayer or the congregational prayer on the day of the celebration and it's usually about between maybe nine and 10:00 in the morning after the sun is up bright. We call it the duha time, the time when the sun is very bright before noon and we have our celebration.
It begins with a prayer, two sections of prayer a year together and before this prayer, we are chanting good words that praises G-d, that glorifies G-d, that say, "G-d, to you is the glory. There's no G-d, but you and you are the greatest", et cetera. We have chants like that, of celebrating the spirit, expressing the spirit of happiness. It's the time of happiness and some of the learned scholars and the highest leaders of our religion, they call it a reoccurring happiness, for our celebration or holidays.
Tom Pope:
All right. Now, given the state of military affairs around the world, and I know that you have been approached about this, Ramadan is also a time when those of the Islamic faith are considered, "We are one." Is that an accurate analogy?
IWDM:
"There's a time when they ...", I didn't get that one, "... when they are"?
Tom Pope:
When they are considered one, as a people in terms of unified in beliefs.
IWDM:
Yes, united, yes. Yes, it is a time when we are conscious of our whole Islamic world being one community. In our Holy Book, it says you are one community. We are conscious of that and we are celebrating with all Muslims throughout the world. Yes, we are very conscious of us being one, a United community.
Tom Pope:
All right. Now, when you watch the nightly news of late date and you see the initiatives of the US government in terms of Afghanistan, Pakistan and what is happening in what is called the Middle East, between the Israelis and Palestinians and some would say singling out those who may either look Arabic or have an Islamic name, what is going through your mind in terms of the events of September 11th and the issue of terrorism and people of Islamic faith around the world? What goes through your mind?
IWDM:
Well, we are bothered by the possibility that any one of us can be hurt or harmed by someone who is terribly upset and want to take it out on somebody. So while we are enjoying, I would say, a good time and the time of peace in America, as Americans who live with other Americans, we are also aware that there are some fanatics on the other side as well, among Christians as well and Jews and others, even atheists, who love this country, certainly would be terribly hurt by what happened on the 11th, September 11th, and those persons seeing us and identifying us as Muslims may think that we are of the same mind as the extremists, the suicide bombers, et cetera. So, we are exposed and it's a very serious time for us.
Tom Pope:
And when you mention that the suicidal bomber, this shows we have people white, Black, every faith listening, folks, strong flag wavers. Some who say, "I'm an American, I'm not going to wave the flag." We have just about every opinion, listening to this audience and listening very intently in terms of what it is that you are saying. The question then becomes, what do you say to those who want to paint the broad brush that if you are of the Islamic faith, that you are a potential sympathizer with so-called terrorists. And we all know that one person's terrorist is another person's liberation fighter. So, it's a matter of your political orientation in terms of where you're coming from, but to be more specific with my question, when you look at these events and folks now saying, "Well, if you are of a good Muslim, you will come out and repudiate the terrorists." Have you had pressure like that placed on you?
IWDM:
Yes, we feel it. All the time we feel that and, yes, we've had a place where I was on Larry King show and most of the participants what they said, I concurred in it, but some things were said that was very much incorrect, that was almost a blanket ... Well, it was, it was a blanket condemnation of all of us, because they were saying that the source for this kind of behavior is our Holy Scripture and they misquoted our Holy Scripture. What I would like to say to that, to this question is that there is nothing in our Holy Book, in the original language of the book. When it's translated into English, some of these people translate it into English, they have a terrible problem. They have bitterness for the West. They think that the West threatens our life, our cultural life, our spiritual life and what happens in the West threatens Christians' life too. But this is not what America was founded for. America's a land of the free and these people, they have the freedom to do the bad things as we have the freedom to do the good things.
So, they don't know the nature of our society and they think that our society is a great enemy to their life, their spiritual life and their cultural life. So, when they translate, these scholars many of them, when they translate from the original language of the text into English, they use language that carries some of that prejudice and some of that bitterness.
So, in the Qur'an, one statement says, the translation that we are saying is incorrect, it says, "Take not Jews and Christians for your friends, for they are friends of one another." That's incorrect. That's terribly incorrect. That is saying, and there are plenty of these translations available to American people. They're in America. Muslims buy the books, but also, they're available to anybody, so when they get that, they may believe this thing about where these terrorists are not just coming from their own rage or from their own anger, they're coming from their scripture. So, it is very serious.
Tom Pope:
All right. We must take a commercial break. If you hold on just one moment, we'll go a little bit deeper into our discussion with Imam W. Deen Mohammed and we'll talk current events and as the Muslim American spokesman. We'll be back with more the show right after this.
The number here, 1-800-486-3427. My very special guest today Imam Warith Deen Mohammed and he is the Muslim American spokesman. Imam Mohammed, one of our listeners wanted to know what was it like first of all growing up and being the son of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Did that put any extra pressure on you growing up?
IWDM:
Yes, it did. Let me say that it was like a protected environment, very special environment for me, because I got a lot of special attention there being the son of my father, the leader who established the Nation of Islam and made it possible for me to bring a great number of his and many of his followers to embrace and connect with the Islamic community at large in the world, the International World of Muslims. And so, I owe really him and what he has done, I owe him the credit for my presence now as a leader who is supported by most of the people who support me, I'm supported by his people, persons who were his strong devoted followers.
But that world, as I said, it was a world that contained us and kept us separate from the American public, from the Christian influences, et cetera. So, we were like living almost in a cell or something that enveloped us and wouldn't permit influences from the outside or exchange, too much exchange, with the outside world. That's my experience as a boy. Now, as I got older, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, got to be known more with his followers, got to be more popular on television, 60 Minutes and what not, introduced us to the outer world and he began kind of preparing us to have, I would say, less fear of the outside world and as you know, Malcolm was a great spokesman for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and for introducing us to both the American public and to the world.
So, it changed gradually, but I remember my life, I felt like I was living among strangers. I felt like America was a foreign world and was a world evil and my world was the world that G-d had given us to protect us from America's evil influences.
Tom Pope:
At what point in your life did you feel, is divergence a good word or what word would you use to show that you started to follow your own beliefs? At what point is there any event or something that you could trace that back to?
IWDM:
Yes. You mentioned my childhood. We were living, when my father got out prison, we lived in apartments and we rented up until the time just before my father was released for refusing the draft, refusing to go to the army and it was around '45 I believe, 1945. Up until that time, we rented, but this, we were living in a frame house, the little same house on the first home that I know of that we had, that we owned, on 61st, 6116 Michigan in Chicago, south side of Chicago.
And my father and mother came down, I was doing my homework for the next day. We had our own school there. We always had our own private school. So, I was doing my homework. It was late at night. I had a lot of homework. I was up late, so my parents came, got all dressed up and they surprised me. They came down the stairs, all dressed up. My father said, "Son, your mother and I, we have to go out to the temple tonight." And when he said that, I knew what he meant. He had to take care of some business matters there. He had to get somebody straight out there in the staff, in the official staff.
So, he said, "And we want you to stay here." Never did they leave me in the house alone before. That was my brothers and sisters, none of them were there and everybody was out, except myself, and they said that, "We might be coming back late." So, I had to stay there.
I finished my homework. Now I'm getting ready to go to bed and the temperature has changed and the house is squeaking, making noises and I'm feeling very much afraid of the. So, I turned to pray for G-d's protection and I'm seeing G-d in the person of the man that my father introduced to us as G-d in the person. And he looks like a white man, right? If you've seen the picture, he looks like a white man. If a African or Black man would say, "Look at this picture. Is he white or Black?" We say, "white," right away, no hesitation.
So, I'm looking at that picture, the highest picture of him and I'm still in some discomfort. Now I'm only about 12 years old at that time, maybe 11, and I'm still in a little discomfort. And I said, before I ask G-d to protect me in that house, I said, "Allah." We call G-d Allah as you know. I said, "Oh, Allah, if I'm not seeing you correctly, please help me see you correctly."
So that tells me, when I thought back on that, I had problem with what I was being taught as early as that time in my life, like 11 or 12 years old. That's when it started, I think. Even earlier, than that's when it started.
And what bothered me was this. My parents were teaching me at home that I should be good, that I shouldn't lie, I shouldn't steal, but I should be the best human being that I could be. And some of the things that we were believing even about ourselves, that Black men got the idea of how to graft the white race and then he grafted white people out of Black people and taught them evil. I couldn't accept that as a child. A child is too innocent to accept that a Black man would create devils or make white people devils.
Tom Pope:
A couple of other things, let me put some names before you. I guess it's been several years now. You appeared in Chicago at Saviours' Day. When you hear the name, the Honorable Minister Lewis Farrakhan what thoughts come to your mind?
IWDM:
When I hear his name, first I think of the problems right now and also the progress that has been made. I'm talking about right now. This is what I think right now. Maybe some years ago it was quite different, but now I'm thinking of how Minister Farrakhan has permitted and encouraged his ministers to study the Qur'an and to learn, try to learn how to say their prayers in Arabic like all Muslim do. When I think of the things that he has done to make the situation better for his people to understand Islam correctly, on the one side, I'm hearing him and very proud of him and on the other side, I'm still nervously waiting for him to do more.
Tom Pope:
All right. You want to take some calls with us? Let's take a few calls. Columbus, Ohio, good day. Welcome. You're on with the Honorable Imam W. Deen Mohammed. Your question or comment, please?
Caller 1:
I have a comment and first I'd like to say As-salamu Alaykum and I just want to-
Caller 1:
Wa Alaikum As-Salaam and blessed Ramadan.
Caller 1:
... tell the Imam how much I appreciate having studied under him and because back in the day when we were all mad about things that were happening to us and everything, he showed us how to take that anger and turn it into something positive and give it Allah and let Allah give you a new heart and let Allah deal with it and we in his community, people following him, we have really been blessed and I'm just so glad, because had we gone the other way, we might be faced with this same situation that the people there in the Middle East are dealing with and I'm just so grateful for his ministry.
Tom Pope:
Amen. Thank you, ma'am.
Caller 1:
Thank you.
Tom Pope:
We appreciate that. One of the city's areas that we're broadcasting into, is the Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina area and for those of you specifically in Durham, Imam W. Deen Mohammed will be there December 21st and 22nd and keep listening to the show and we will give you the exact venue of where that will be, December 21st and 22nd. That lady was obviously a supporter of yours. What did her words mean to you?
IWDM:
First, I must thank her, thank her and to let her know that I appreciate her support and her words very much. Her words say to me that if we had not gone taken the route that we took to conform to the best that's in our religion, and that's what G-d says to us in our Holy Book. He says, "And take the best thereof", because the Qur'an like the Bible, is not only instructions for your guidance to help you be the best person you can be, but the Qur'an carries a history of terrible events that happen in the life of people and if you dwell on the conflicts for humanity and the conflicts for a religious group, it can warp your nature and take you into bad form. So, G-d tells us to take the best thereof. Don't dwell on those things that will make us angry. Don't dwell on those things that will make us dislike people.
She obviously appreciates that kind of a way of presenting religion and she's saying had I been different and been angry with the world, perhaps I would've have had them in the same spirit in mind as some of these extremists who would go to the extent of making themselves a bomb or wiring themselves up to get attention to their cause and to hurt enemies.
Tom Pope:
All right. Detroit, Michigan, thank you for holding. Your question for Imam W. Deen Mohammed?
Caller 2:
Yes, sir. As-salamu alaykum. Basically, what I wanted to know, two quick questions and what it is, is that I heard you mention that America is the land of the free. At what point did America's governmental system become the land of the free for Black people.
Tom Pope:
Let me jump in and say, this brother, you call here every day. You called about three-
Caller 2:
No, because I have not.
Tom Pope:
... No, I've heard your voice before and I'm not going to hassle with you in terms of whether this is the land of the free and I guess that the thing is there are many people who have positions and one, they haven't been outside the country and neither have they been in a totalitarian state. And when you look at the freedoms that we have here, even for him to call this number and voice whatever is on his mind, do you think that folks need to, if at all possible, get outside of this country, go to a totalitarian state and then they understand, can appreciate, although this is not the perfect place, but there is a degree of freedom here in America. What would you say to that?
IWDM:
It's addressed to me? That's addressed to me?
Tom Pope:
Yes, sir.
IWDM:
Yes. Well, you know I have traveled to many, because of the good situation I have as a leader of a big following who supports me, I have been blessed to go to many other nations, many other countries and I'm aware that there is no country that I know of that I can enjoy religious freedom that I enjoy in this country, nowhere. So we do have a very special and precious freedom and the President Bush, when he was speaking to the American public, to the nation, he wanted us to be aware that the attacks of September 11th was also an attack upon our freedom. And I believe that because these persons and their teachers, their leaders who aspire this kind of behavior and prompt them to such actions, they don't have this idea of freedom and they think our idea of freedom is really threatening them in their way of life.
As I said earlier, they don't understand the nature of our society, where this freedom permits us to do bad things and good things and G-d has permitted us. He hasn't created us and say, "You can't do any bad." He wants us to earn the good life for ourselves and feel good of our own achievements to struggling for moral life and struggling to be good human beings or the best human being. He wants us to be conscious and that's why he made us free. That's why he made humans, so that we could enjoy that satisfaction and feel good about ourselves.
In our Holy Book, G-d says, "Return to Me oh soul, pleasing and at peace." That's what it means, "pleasing and pleased" So here, G-d is saying that when you get to heaven, the end of your work is to please me, but I have made it so it will please you. You will love your accomplishments. You will love yourself. You'll feel good about yourself. So, this is America and America is the only the place that I know of that give us that freedom.
Tom Pope:
All right. Let's take a brief time out. We'll be back with some more right after this.
Tom Pope:
The very special guest Imam Warith Deen Mohammed, a Muslim American spokesman and we've got a couple of minutes left and let me take this time to provide you with an opportunity for closing comments that you would leave with our listeners today. What would those thoughts be?
IWDM:
The power of scripture of both the people of the books that I mentioned, Jews, Christians and Muslims. Islam is not a separate religion or a separate spiritual movement from G-d. It is the same spiritual movement from G-d that we have refined in the scriptures of Jews and in the scriptures of Christians and I would like to say that G-d tells us in these scriptures that man was once one community and man as a baby society began all with the same good innocent human nature and we learned to act on our own and some of us became bad. Many of us kept our goodness and that's the makeup of the world and it's moving all the time towards one world. And we have come to that time. I believe this is the greatest time in history of mankind on this earth and we are told to try to have peace and good working relationships with all good people and that's where we stand.
Tom Pope:
And with that, we thank you for being our guest today and we wish you, I don't know if it's appropriate to say, wish you a happy or blessed or pleasant Ramadan, but that is the intent of our heart.
IWDM:
And thank you and we wish you a beautiful holiday season and all of your listeners.
Tom Pope:
And with that, As-Salamu Alaykum-
IWDM:
Wa alaikum As-salaam.
Tom Pope:
... and thank-



